16. Chris Wilson, Executive Director, CBC Sports – TV Coverage of the Olympics in Canada
Farrell Sports Business Podcast
Interviews with unicorns from sports business and their unique stories, dreams, ideas, insights, innovations, flops and career paths. Get a unique perspective of the inner workings of jobs working in sports beyond just pro sports leagues. Hosted by 30-year sports business veteran Matt Farrell, President of Farrell Sports and CEO of Bat Around.
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Episode 16 - Host Matt Farrell talks with Chris Wilson, Executive Director of CBC Sports. He discusses his role in running the sports and Olympic business for the CBC in Canada. He highlights the importance of the Olympics for CBC and the Canadian audience, as well as the changing demographics and interests of Canadian viewers. Wilson also talks about the impact of social media on Olympic coverage and the challenge of balancing immediacy and storytelling. He emphasizes the value of building relationships and treating people well in any career.
Farrell Sports Business (00:00)
On this week's Farrell Sports Business Podcast, we're going to go up North to Canada and really get an inside look at the CBC coverage, especially of the Olympics and sports in general, what their mandate is, how that might be different than what most of the people in the United States see with NBC sports coverage, the parallels, the contrast. This gentleman also has a really unique and fascinating background of how he got working into sports.
Everything from real estate to owning wine shops to transitioning into a sports career. We cross paths in our days with swimming, me at USA swimming him at swimming Canada. And I think it's just going to be a fascinating conversation. I'm the host, Matt Farrell. And in this Olympic special edition interview, we're going to talk to the executive director of CBC sports in Canada, a good friend and incredibly insightful person, Chris
Farrell Sports Business (01:10)
Chris, so glad to have you straight from Canada House in Paris.
Chris Wilson (01:16)
Thanks Matt, thanks for having me. If there's any background noise, I apologize. It's because I was trying to find a spot where there was a little energy, but not so much that I couldn't hear what you were saying. And yeah, we're right in the middle of Canada Olympic House at the Park of Nations in Paris. There's 15 different National Olympic Committee houses all in this big
and the Canadian Olympic Committee has their big space here and for the first time ever, CBC set up our main studios here and we're sort of integrated right into the Olympic House and it's been awesome.
Farrell Sports Business (01:56)
Well, we appreciate you dropping and doing this during the middle of the Olympics. So a little bit of energy and buzz is to be expected. So, well, I just tell us about your role, this executive director of the CBC. I just think it's fascinating. What tell talk a little bit about the
Chris Wilson (02:15)
Sure, so I mean a lot of your listeners probably don't know what the CBC is so I maybe start there. It's the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation and it's publicly funded through the government, TV, radio, national public broadcaster of Canada. We have French and English networks across the country and we have the Olympic rights until 2032.
So my job is to run the sports for CBC and run the Olympic business for CBC and Regio Canada, which is our French network. So, you know, we're basically on the air on both French and English networks 22 of 24 hours a day on our linear channel with all the streaming and all the social media and the writers and everything. And my job is basically just to in the lead up, make sure that the plans are good and the sponsors are signed and
business makes sense and then once I get here I just put out a few fires here and there and make sure that the team is having a good time really. It's that simple.
Farrell Sports Business (03:20)
It's a slightly dated reference, but you know, I have this vision of broadcast news of, you know, running through the halls with tapes and, but what, you know, your role at an Olympic games, what's a day in the life look
Chris Wilson (03:40)
mean, you're putting me in an awkward position because I have to admit that when it comes to the actual games, I'm really just trying to stay out of the way and make sure that all the technicians and the camera people and the on -air talent and the assignment producers and the engineers, that they are literally safe, comfortable, having a good time, enjoying their work.
because they're the experts. Like, CBC's been in the Olympic game for a long time and we have some of the best Olympic production people in the world, without a doubt. So, they don't need me on the content side. So, a lot of my job is leadership, management, dealing with sponsors, dealing with the IOC, dealing with other national Olympic committees and our own Canadian Olympic committee. So, it is a lot of...
know, slapping and kissing babies. There is a lot of that. But the work is really done in the two years, three years leading up to an Olympics. I mean, you know this, the planning that goes into an Olympics is not, you know, a month before. It's years before. And so we've been working on these plans for many, many months. And now that it's happening, sometimes it takes a little confidence just to stand back and let it happen.
Farrell Sports Business (05:07)
So we talked a little bit off camera and we're talking about how this role just seems custom made for you. How did it, how did it happen? How did it fall into place? Why were you the right person for
Chris Wilson (05:24)
I mean, yeah, I was lucky. mean, you and I know each other from the swimming world. That's where we met. You were working for United States swimming. I was working for swimming Canada. We'd see each other at events and such. And I was a swimmer myself. My wife was a swimmer. I coached swimming for a long time. So I was always in the Olympic space and always a big fan of the Olympic movement and had worked in sport. But at the time that I got hired by CBC, was...
you know, the director of marketing for Swimming Canada. And to be honest, I was meeting with the guy whose job I had now, and we were meeting about the Olympic trials for 2020. And we had lunch to discuss how CBC was gonna cover the trials and I was, you know, at swimming. And at the end of the lunch, I just said, hey, I love what I'm doing, but you talk to a lot of people in sports. I've been there seven years now. If you hear of anything interesting, let me know.
And he said, well, actually we've got someone retiring here in a little while. I'll stay in touch. And I didn't think much of it, but he did stay in touch. And a couple of months later, he called me and said, that position's open if you want to apply. And it was for a senior director position at the CBC. And so I applied and decided I'd go for it I got the job. And so this was October of 2018. And he had said, you know, he wasn't going to be there
years and you know that I could be a succession plan but two months later he told me he had got a job and he was moving to Indianapolis for a professional sport job and two months later I was named the interim head of CBC Sports which was kind of remarkable and mind -blowing and so yeah I just sort of jumped in and and then proved myself you know
It takes luck. Every job usually takes a little bit of luck. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that if you appreciate the fact that there's some luck involved. But then once the door gets open, you got to prove yourself. over the next six months, there was a new VP that I report to that was hired. And over the next six months, I think I proved myself and they made the job permanent on Canada Day of 2019.
So it's been five years and this is my first Olympics with people in the stands because the first two games that we did under my direction, which I basically inherited, those plans were already baked, were Tokyo and Beijing, which were both COVID games. this is kind of the first one where I feel like a little bit of my leadership stamp is on it. So it's kind of fun.
Farrell Sports Business (07:58)
Yeah.
so I mean, okay, so those, those are three Olympic games right there. Did you have a few at swimming Canada? Do you keep account? How many overall Olympics for
Chris Wilson (08:29)
No, I never went to the Olympics when I was at Swimming Canada. So literally the first time I went to the Olympics was as the head of CBC Olympics, which was kind of interesting in Tokyo. But yeah, it's a thrill because I believe so much in what the Olympics can do for the world and for sport in general. as I said,
CBC has, we have so many people on our team that have been to 10 Olympics, 12 Olympics, our host has been to 16 Olympics. They know the production side inside and out. And when I arrived, I felt like they were kind of segmented and they were working in some pretty big silos and they didn't have the confidence I thought they should have for the reverence of which they're held in the international broadcast community.
So I feel like I was the right person at the right time to come in and provide some confidence and some direction, provide a little bit of strategic leadership for giving them permission to focus on things that they maybe felt were valuable but not commercial. And as the public broadcaster in Canada,
we have the luxury of being able to cover things because it matters to the country and not necessarily because it has to make economic sense every decision that we make. Every decision is not a financial decision at our company because our job is to inform and enlighten and shine a light on Canadian culture and Canadian athletes in the case of sport.
So we have the luxury of being able to cover some events because they're important, not because they're financially driven. So we're appreciative of
Farrell Sports Business (10:24)
So actually I was going to ask this later, but you've teed it up. So is it as ratings driven with the CBC as what we might expect in the U
Chris Wilson (10:39)
It is in the instance that we want Canadians to feel like the CBC is relevant and important and so of course we're paying attention to it but we do get a government grant to fund the operation and so you know when we go cover something like the Arctic Winter Games in Northern Canada which is an indigenous
multi -sport games. We're doing that because it's important to shine a light on that event for the country and to showcase that as a cultural sporting event that matters. Not because there's a lineup of sponsors that want to come on board or because it draws millions of viewers. It's because it's important. So we can do that. On the Olympics? it matters. It definitely matters. The Olympics is different.
It's a highly important sponsor property. It's the one moment I would say it's the biggest thing the network does. And for just reminding the country that the CBC is a place to Canadians around sport, it's very
Farrell Sports Business (11:50)
Well, this conversation is about you and the CBC and not NBC, but I want to maybe draw some parallels of, and you can take this wherever you really want, Chris, where are things, what's a Canadian viewer experience on the CBC? Where is it similar to NBC? Where is it different? How would you draw the parallels and contrasts?
Chris Wilson (12:16)
I would say it is a lot closer now than maybe what it used to be because CBC has a certainly a national reputation but also an international reputation for doing live coverage all the time. So we, like I said at the beginning, we're on the air 22 hours a day on our linear channel, live the entire time. Obviously in prime time back in Canada there's no live sport.
because it's overnight in Paris. So we're recapping, but the show is live. But we don't save any big results from earlier in the day to package for a primetime show. So for years, there was lots of funny articles written about people in Buffalo and on the border that would try and watch CBC, because in those days, you know, there wasn't other ways to watch it. There wasn't such, you know, information available on the internet to be able to just pick it up.
there was lots of hilarious articles written about people in Buffalo or Detroit that would try and pick up the CBC signal so they could watch it live because NBC was holding it back to package it for their big primetime show. But now that NBC has sort of changed their strategy and they've decided to go more live all the time and they have a similar experience on Peacock as to what we have on ROTT which is CBC Gem, I think
think the experiences are much closer. Their budget is a lot bigger than ours, no doubt. So they have a lot of glitz and glam and beautiful sets and they are, as our team is, world -renowned broadcasters. They're incredible. We work closely with them and we have total respect for it. They have a much bigger budget and a lot more at stake from a business standpoint, just the sheer...
Farrell Sports Business (13:53)
Hehehehehe
Chris Wilson (14:15)
expense of what they're doing but they're incredible at what they do, great partners of ours. And I will say that not that NBC doesn't do this but we take a lot of pride in covering the biggest international stories. know we try, of course we're covering the Canadians but I don't think that we are hyper focused on only covering Canadian stories and Canadian results. If there's a big international story then
going to be there covering it and it's important to us to be global news gathering.
Farrell Sports Business (14:54)
I think that's really interesting and what I've always heard of how it distinguishes, but I want to actually bring it back a little closer to home and a swimming reference. And I mean this to be kind of a 30 ,000 foot view question, but what is a summer Macintosh who is just a phenomenal athlete, swimmer breaks out, looks like has already started an incredible Olympics.
From a CBC standpoint, how much is a game changer of a standout Canadian athlete like a summer?
Chris Wilson (15:28)
Yeah, it's huge for sure. And I'm sure that in, you know, when Michael Phelps was there, NBC was feeling a similar way or Katie Ledecky, you know, like it's those star athletes like Simone Biles or, you know, in our case, Andre Degrasse is a great track star and Summer Macintosh, Penny Alexia previously. They matter. And, you know, it's interesting. Someone at the IOC told me the other day that we're one of the only countries
they deal with where the Winter Olympics are as much or more important than the Summer Olympics. And I said, well, you know, back in the late 90s and early 2000s, that was definitely the case. And I think everybody assumed it was because Canada was a winter nation. And yes, it's true. We love hockey. Hockey is still king here. That is true. But it's so interesting to me that over the last 20 years, two things have happened. One,
We've just gotten a lot better at the Summer Olympics. Like we are now winning gold medals again, much higher up the medal table. We've got way more success in team sports. We're hoping our basketball team is going to end up in a medal round against the U .S. And we've got a really strong, you know, basketball team that's full of NBA players. We've got great track stars. So that helps in terms of the viewership. So our revenue is actually now equal.
summer to winter games, which it never used to be. And our ratings are very similar as well, or even a little higher on the summer. And another reason I think that is, is because Canada's demographics have changed so much with people coming in and immigrating from other countries around the world. But they're not coming from countries that care about skiing or luge or hockey or bobsled or speed skating. They're coming from countries that love track and field, field hockey.
cricket, basketball, like global sports. And so the demographics have changed so much that, you know, the summer games are more of a global interest and the winter games are actually quite niche when you look at the sports that are in there. mean, 70 % of the world doesn't see snow or care about anything with snow and ice. So I think that's one of the reasons why summer Olympics are now a much bigger deal for us in Canada than they were.
back in the early 2000s. But in 2004, we didn't win a single swimming medal or a single athletics medal. And that's also hard to sell. So that's a long way of answering. Summer Macintosh winning a couple of medals and being such an incredible story, it's great for us. And we're grateful to have more than just summer as well on the team, for sure. It matters.
Farrell Sports Business (18:01)
That's... That I get.
Yeah. I remember back at, you know, a period of 2005 to 2018 for me at USA swimming, Michael Phelps, Katie Ledecky, Missy Franklin, Natalie Coughlin, Caleb Dressel. And I'm sitting there like this job isn't so hard. What's what was it? But, in my, in my buddy Ryan Lochte, but,
Chris Wilson (18:35)
Right, yeah kind of sells itself
So true.
Farrell Sports Business (18:48)
social media impact on this. mean, okay, social media has been around a long time with across multiple Olympics. And I think this is maybe tick tock in particular for this Olympics. It just feels like it's on another level to me of athletes taking, taking over their own narrative in the games from unpacking their, their kit.
to, you know, talking about the village from your perspective, obviously it's a, it's a great thing, but how do you, how do you try to incorporate that into your broadcast? How does it help your broadcast? Does it actually give you any concern at times of, people got what they wanted on tick tock and they don't come to the CBC. what, what's broad question, Chris, but what, what's kind of your take on how that impacts your
Chris Wilson (19:43)
Yeah.
Yeah, no, it's huge. mean, first of all, the IOC to their credit has lightened up the rules for the athletes on social media. there's literally what you're noticing is partly because the IOC has taken off some of the limiters, the rules of what the athletes are allowed to do with social media. Like for years they were allowed almost nothing. Now we have all, as broadcasters said, it's good for us. We need the awareness. You know, we want them to be
engaged in telling these stories and in some cases you know we'll collaborate on posts and things like that but awareness of the Olympics is just good period in my opinion so like if you know be it again Simone Biles or you know any Olympian that's in the village and doing that sort of content I believe is good for the awareness and just for the movement in general.
rights holder in Canada with two sports channel partners. So if you want to watch anything live, you have to come to us. And if you're really engaged and you learn to like an athlete because of their social posts, I feel like you're more likely to search them out and go watch them perform. Are you going to necessarily watch them for three hours for a whole event? Maybe not. The young audiences these days
We've all seen the research that shows that they're watching all sports differently. They're not watching full NBA games from end to end. They're not watching NHL games from end to end. They're collecting it in highlights. They're watching social media. so that's the part that I think is keeping all of us alert. And I won't go so far as to say up at night because I do sleep pretty well. But...
trying to make sure that we are meeting the audience where they are, especially those younger audiences, instead of expecting them to come and turn on their over -the -air linear television set like we did when we were growing up and there was only six channels to choose from and all that archaic stuff that dates us for how old we are. But we have to find ways to get younger audiences.
Farrell Sports Business (21:57)
Ha ha ha!
Chris Wilson (22:05)
enjoying the Olympics, understanding the Olympics, feeling an affinity for the Olympics, and that is social media driven. So the interesting thing is as linear television audiences continue to drop and with it, know, advertising revenues go away, the digital audiences are going up, but the revenue is not like equal. You know, mean, the revenue, the linear revenue is so strong still.
But when it drops, you don't just make it up on digital. You make up a fraction of it. And so while you're trying to do more and more digital, you have less money coming in to try and make everything happen. So it's a real balancing act. And I think we're not unique in that regard. We are all finding the same thing, that linear is still the king of audience. If you want to draw a big, big audience, it's still on linear. But.
You have to service that digital audience, but it's still smaller and much less revenue associated with it. there's this 10 -year period, I think, where we're bridging to the next thing, but we have to keep the last thing alive. And it's all very expensive to service all of it, you know? So, yeah, it's challenging.
Farrell Sports Business (23:28)
Well, I want to maybe circle back one last Olympic question. want to just ask a little bit about your career, but the concept of, of, of packaging, storytelling, whatever phrase you want to use, making people care. How do you, I guess, how do you strike that balance between immediacy and, and storytelling in your coverage and maybe
Just to make it a super long question, Chris, I look at Netflix and drive to survive and full swing. I know those results. Those were a year ago, but I still like the storytelling aspect of it. And in the U S I feel like peacock during the day is about the sport. And then the prime time show is about the people. So how do you strike that balance?
Chris Wilson (24:09)
Yeah.
Yeah, that's a good point and I don't know if you watch sprint but they did a track and field one and the Simone Biles one was really good too. there's some Olympic tie -ins there which I like. Yeah, I mean it's a challenge because great storytelling is also really expensive. So you're trying to build that into your budget too like the really...
Farrell Sports Business (24:32)
It was
Chris Wilson (24:45)
those shows you're talking about. mean, those are extremely high end, expensive shows to pull off. realistically for us, we couldn't do that. But we try and do, it's so hot here that my AirPods keep falling out. We try and do a lot of storytelling ahead of time. And we're fortunate that we cover Olympic sport all year
So we're not just sort of in the Olympics for two weeks and then gone again. Every week we are covering Olympic sport. So we're trying to make sure that we're introducing these athletes to Canadians week in, week out, ongoing basis so that they used to have a slogan around here. We don't use it as much, but it's still true. We don't want Canadians to learn about a great Canadian athlete when they win a medal. We would like them to have learned about them before they get to that point.
Farrell Sports Business (25:16)
Great point.
Chris Wilson (25:40)
so that you understand who they are and you're looking forward to seeing them on the podium instead of learning about who the hell they are when they get on the podium. we have that as a luxury. In the games, I would say we have changed from the old school feature of five minutes and glamorous B -roll of them walking along a river with their dog with,
quiet music in the background, which was a very typical sort of CBC profile, to way more just humanizing, show them with their family, real talk, shorter segments, because people are less attention span, I think that's true. But we did spend on a couple little stories like the women's marathon here in Paris is a huge story. It's a big anniversary of the women's marathon being in the Olympics.
and for the first time ever it's going to be the final event of the Olympics. It's usually the men's marathon. This time they're going to finish with the women's marathon. And so we did a one hour documentary about the women's marathon that was really great and featured two Canadian marathoners in it and their quest to make the Olympics. you we try and do a little bit of that within our means. We do a lot of little fun segments with the athletes during the games and being here at Canada Olympic House has been great for that because
the athletes come here to see their friends and family and the media, the main rights holder, is here already. So they don't have to schlep it up to the IBC or go somewhere else. It's really, it's made it easy. Yesterday we had 10 members of a divers family on our set doing a big group interview because they were here having fun at Canada Olympic House and they were all wearing custom t -shirts. So we just brought them all onto the set, totally unplanned. And that never happens if
tucked away somewhere else and it really resonated with the hometown of Saskatoon where all these people were from. yeah, it's important to try and get those stories out but how we do it and social media plays a big part of that. Like a lot of how we introduce these athletes is, you know, short clips on social media. They're not always big broadcast features, you know.
Farrell Sports Business (27:42)
I love
Well, I just can't thank you enough for doing this. want, especially during a busy time, I want to give you the last word. Anything you're working on, shameless plug, maybe something I didn't ask you about what's going on with you or the CBC.
Chris Wilson (28:17)
I mean, not about that. I mean, because you and I have known each other a long time, but we haven't talked in a long time. I mean, I might just embarrass you a little bit here because when you wrote me to do this, I was super excited because we actually haven't talked much in a long time. So I said, I'll do it, but I want to have time to catch up as well. So, you know, I'd like to make even more time for that. But that was great. But I think the lesson that I've learned because I've had a varied career.
I didn't go to university. I'm a high school graduate only. I'm kind of self -made in that regard. I was a real estate agent. I was a swim coach. I owned a couple of wine stores. I was the director of marketing for Swimming Canada and now I'm in this role here. And the thing that it's taught me is that people are people in every role that you have and how you treat people is ultimately what matters in a lot of jobs.
being a doctor or a brain surgeon or something like that, okay, maybe there's other skills. But in a lot of jobs, how you treat people matters and the interaction with people. And I can honestly say that even though it's been 10 years, of all the people I worked with in the last 25 years, you were in my top five of people that were just classy in every instance and a great person, you could tell. Every time we got together, we had a big laugh and it was just joyful to
colleagues in that regard. So I think for people to know, you know, that you can make it far just by being a good person and treating people well. And of course you have to have other skills. But I really believe that you can train skill, you can't train smile. And, you know, so for me, getting to reconnect with you and sort of, it reminded me of just sort of those relationships that you have along your career.
that matter and even though you may not talk every day or even work together in our case, yeah, how you treat people matters. I'll fight anybody that thinks
Farrell Sports Business (30:25)
You're the best. Slightly embarrassing, thank you. And it's mutual respect. And I always say there are energy givers in life and there are energy takers in life and you're an energy giver and I appreciate you so much. So awesome to connect with you and good luck to you and the CBC for the rest of the games in Paris and for the Paralympics.
Chris Wilson (30:53)
Thank you, Matt. I appreciate it. Get yourself a VPN and watch a little CBC down there. Just don't tell anybody. Perfect. Perfect. Thanks, Matt.
Farrell Sports Business (30:59)
I'm in, I'll go to my IT director. Chris, thank you, sir.
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